Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

topic posted Fri, August 7, 2009 - 10:55 AM by  Michael
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Ok all lets here the Ideas on how to fortify your house,garage,bugout truck etc. I have been told that cement block walls are not any good at stopping even the AR-15 .223 round. I watched a guy on video take down an entire block wall with a .308 military rifle. In ww2 sand bags were the normal prtoection for Bunkers and fox holes. How would fortify your BOL? your HOME? or in Mitches case your GARAGE? Free
posted by:
Michael
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  • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Fri, August 7, 2009 - 12:46 PM
    i cant stop em with my house or car, much less my motorcycle. I always thought of shacking up in my workshop at work. Its a concrete brick building with big rolling doors I have a forklift in it to block up the door with pallets and steel drums. I also have a roof hatch that looks over most of the buildings around me for 2 blocks. Surveilance cams and 4 feet of concrete cover all around as well as sandbags and grappling hooks.inside it are two work vans and generators. Gas station half a block down. Tons of tools and garden implements for mele combat. Building always looks dead from the outside and is un-marked. Plus many more surprises.

    Zombie proof atleast

    In a perfect world I would have recources to have something like the batmobile for an armoured vehicle. Best I COULD do, is armour myself and pasengers with helmets and vests and only armour the engine and wheels area of a vehicle. so that it can still travel fast and wont get bogged down. Roll bars are a must.
  • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Fri, August 7, 2009 - 3:12 PM
    I don't know much about the science behind this but I always thought if TSHTF one way to partially protect your house from gunfire -- possibly for free -- would be to get someone to dump concrete debris and/or dirt in your front yard, creating a big fat berm. 10 feet of rubble would stop anything short of a Howitzer round, wouldn't it? Remember, I like low-tek whenever possible. It's simple and often free. Also I expect if you lived in the woods you could create berms using logs and dirt. A dude from the army once told me if you want to stop a big bullet with dirt (50 cal?, can't remember), you have to have a very thick wall of dirt that you wet and pack/compress as you build it up. I think he said it had to be 6 or 8 feet thick. I've heard it hypothesized that filling a hollow metal door with gravel might stop bullets. Also, sandbags filled with gravel, sand or dirt would do something to stop bullets, depending on how thick you stacked them. Plate steel couldn't hurt now, could it? But I have a notion that if you double up plate steel, you want to leave a gap between the gaps and fill it with gravel. Have seen a video of steel-core .223 rounds fired from an M16 put perfect holes thru 1/2 inch plate steel. Yikes.
    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

      Fri, August 7, 2009 - 3:18 PM
      Who TF is this Iliano-wearing Prince-lookalike bunny chick in these ads? She's kind of hot, but who TF would ever dress like that except in Rio on Carnival?
      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

        Fri, August 7, 2009 - 3:19 PM
        Now she's gone.
        • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

          Fri, August 7, 2009 - 6:42 PM
          I did an article on this a few years back on the Gunversation website) I conducted some tests on simulated walls (a stud sandwiched in sheetrock.) I was able to achieve penetration all the way down to a 32, and that was shooting through the stud + 2 layers of sheetrock.

          I don;t know about tearing up a wall with a 223. It is a pretty anemic round. A 308 is another story, but even that would take a lot of ammo (and you'd be shooting back too.)

          My dad had a shootout many years ago where the agents left their long-guns behind in a broken down car and were met by bad guys with AKs fortified in a cinder block house with a tin roof. Knowing that they would be finished if they did not get creative, my Dad took a few rounds to blow a hole in the hollow cinder block (everyone carried ball ammo back them.) When the last bullet finally broke through it sent bits of shrapnel in every direction. Then Dad started throwing rocks on the roof and shouting "Grenada" as the rocks rolled down the tin. At the same time they would shoot out another brick. The schmoes inside thought they had grenades and gave up! True story!

          A close friend of mine has a red brick house.with plastered walls. He had an a/d with his magnum with full-house loads. It chipped the plaster but the brick held. That old house is a serious fortress.

          Adobe houses have incredibly thick walls that will stop a 50cal. Rammed earth houses as well, you could survive a nuke in one of those! My first job was working for John Dillinger building a rammed earth house.
          • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

            Fri, August 7, 2009 - 9:52 PM
            Adam, you sure look young considering you built a house for John Dillinger.
            • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

              Sat, August 8, 2009 - 9:51 AM
              The real gangster died 40 years before I was born. This was some schleb who had a dream of building a mansion out of ram-earth modules. We were building the first one. Walls 3 foot thick, the floor of the house half underground, the plac woulda been a fortress.

              Actually, John Dillinger was arrested right here in Tucson.
              • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                Tue, September 1, 2009 - 3:35 PM
                I had a link but it's on the other laptop, and I'm lazy. If there's still interest in this thread I can dig it up, it's a page full of photos and captions of ballistic tests done on mockup wall panels filled with different kinds of bullet resistant materials, from fiberglass to gravel to plywood to cement and into the higher-end ballistic panels.
                • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                  Wed, September 2, 2009 - 9:16 AM
                  one time a long time ago a relative of mine survived a shootout of over 3000 rounds from 10-20 men, his name was elfuego baca, heck disney even did a short on him he was a legend....the way he survived was he was in a wooden shack house when it happened, the shack had about a foot of subterranian floor (the floor was a foot under ground) and thus he just layed down and all the bullets over 36 hours missed him AND he took out over a third of the guys before they gave up. lesson learned? MAKE A SUBTERRANIAN FLOOR!!!!!!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                    Wed, September 2, 2009 - 3:12 PM
                    I saw Charles bronson do that in a movie a long time ago...... They ended up burning his cabin to get him out.
                    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                      Wed, September 2, 2009 - 5:06 PM
                      while that may be true the title of the thread was about bullets not fire

                      >:P
                      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                        Fri, September 4, 2009 - 11:14 AM
                        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rese...New_Mexico

                        In the 1860s, Mexican-Americans established a string of villages along the river, naming them the Upper, Lower, and Middle San Francisco Plazas. In the late 1870s Anglo settlers began arriving. They renamed Upper Frisco Plaza as Milligan's Plaza, naming it after a merchant and saloon owner.

                        Milligan's Plaza was the site of the legendary Frisco Shootout of Elfego Baca. In 1882, or perhaps 1884, the nineteen-year-old Baca apparently appointed himself deputy sheriff and rode 130 miles from Socorro to the Plaza. There he set about bringing justice to the Mexican-American community which had been beset by drunken cowboys.

                        Outnumbered 80 Texans, Baca holed up in a jacal, the flimsiest kind of hut, and was besieged by the mob. Bullets and dynamite could not dislodge him, and in a gun battle lasting 33 hours, he inflicted death and grievous injury on some of his adversaries without being injured himself.
                        • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                          Fri, September 4, 2009 - 5:18 PM
                          I shot my mauser through a telephone pole a few times, just to see what kind of penetration it would have. And I learned some interesting observations. One, a mauser has a ton of penetrating power. It went cleanly through a treated, oil infused kiln-hardened 16 inch thick telephone pole and still had enough punch in the back to make a divot in the ground that looked like a dirt bike had done a burnout on the grass. I'd say the divot was consistently 10 inches long, 3 to 4 inches deep. I never retrieved any bullets.

                          Another thing I noticed was that the angle of the bullet trajectory was always exaggerated from passing through the pole. I was shooting at a point about four feet up the pole, so a slight downward angle from my line of sight to the pole. The bullet would leave the backside of the pole at a sharper downward trajectory. It would dig into the ground about 15 feet behind the pole, which would have put it at maybe a 25 or 30 degree downward angle, where it had previously entered in at a 2 or 5 degree angle.

                          I'm sure there's a mathematical function that a sniper would be able to tell you about how bullet trajectories change when passing through a medium like a glass window or a wooden wall. I wouldn't even know where to begin to look for one. But the important thing I gathered is that I would not feel safe pulling an 'elfuego baca' and lying on the ground if the bullets are going to be coming in at a downward angle. That cabin must have been really small, if it had a 15x15 footprint or bigger, I coulda tagged him with the mauser. food for thought.
                          • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                            Fri, September 4, 2009 - 6:10 PM
                            what calibre is your Mauser?
                            • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                              Sat, September 5, 2009 - 10:21 AM
                              the usual. 7.92x56... also called 8mm.

                              It's in the same .30 caliber class as the 30-06, the 7.62x54R and I believe the .303 british barely makes it up there. A lot of people like to think the .308 is up there too, because it's heavier than a .223 and it is .30 caliber, but it doesnt' have the same whallop for punching through walls and trees and ballistic armor. I have read that the mauser is marginally more powerful than the 30-06, only by about a hundred foot pounds though. basically the same and I'm sure you'd get similar performance from an '06.

                              the bullets were 146 or 147 grains, turkish steel jacketed. I also have plenty of 196 grain boat-tail spitzers, I guess those are for drilling holes through bigger stuff like... I dunno, cities?
  • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Mon, September 14, 2009 - 5:23 PM
    Dirt and gravel. Sandbag around your windows and fighting positions. You may have to reinforce the floor to withstand the weight. I've also heard of people designing fighting positions inside their house for when they'd have to fall back from the walls. Patriots by Rawles shows how to make steel shutters and steel reinforced doors, but it's not effective for an entire wall.
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    Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Tue, September 15, 2009 - 3:07 PM
    On MythBusters JH made panels from ceramic tile sheets, the type that are interlinked with fiberglass mesh, and some form of industrial plastic cement. The combination stopped a wide variety of rounds, he just did the original set up. I'm sure it could be tweeked to be better. Still nothing stops bullets better than dirt. A rammed earth home behind a berm several yards thick should keep the ground floor and the basement safe.
    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

      Sun, October 11, 2009 - 12:52 AM
      You could have kevlar fabric lining in vehicles and such. It would be a good way to bulletproof a motorhome. Light too. Expensive, but it would stop small arms. You would have to win the lottery for that shit. Heavy plate steel is for the rest of us poor schlubs.
      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

        Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:23 PM
        bulletproofme.com has ballistic panels from old vests... it's still good as new, but because it was built to an older rating method it's no longer legal to sell for saving lives... In tests, the panels stack up just as well to comparable modern new vests. $25 per panel or thereabouts... oh and for anyone curious, the panel is the 22 or 24 layers of kevlar which is the bullet proof vest part of a bullet proof vest. They basically take off the blue overlining and velcro straps and there you go.

        you wouldn't need as many layers of kevlar to stop a bullet through a car door, not so much for the car doors ability to absorb energy (it doesn't make much of a difference) but the door does cause the bullet to deform and expand, which greatly decreases it's sectional density and the stress it puts on the kevlar. Still, you won't get by with just a couple layers. More like fifteen or more to stop a wide array of pistol calibers. Forget about rifle calibers with any kind of 'soft' armor
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    Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Wed, October 21, 2009 - 8:39 PM
    hypothesis: The best way to avoid serious injury or death caused by bullets or zombies is to avoid bullets and zombies.

    facts: With todays technology no bunker is impenetrable. Even if technology to penetrate the bunker or force the occupants out is not available by those wishing to do so then the bunker can be surrounded from a safe distance and besieged. The the wait begins until the besiegers give up or those inside the bunker either come out guns blazing, surrender or die from lack of supplies. It is best not to be in a bunker for these reasons.

    practice: Rather then fortify one position collect and stash supplies in a general area and when the apocalypse hits go mobile in stealth mode thus avoiding the zombies and the fools battling them.
    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

      Thu, October 22, 2009 - 11:56 AM
      :""" Rather then fortify one position collect and stash supplies in a general area and when the apocalypse hits go mobile in stealth mode thus avoiding the zombies and the fools battling them"""

      It is unnavoidable. Sooner or later, in a situation like that, you WILL be one of the FOOLS battling them.
      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

        Sat, October 24, 2009 - 4:24 PM
        EVERYONE will be going mobile in stealth mode. You're going to reduce yourself to relying on a quicker trigger finger right off the bat? Good luck buddy.

        Human history from the start is a story of nomads getting their asses handed to them by men who build fortified strongholds. From the U.S. cavalry taming the west, to the earlier settlers of the colonies in their blockhouses, to the feudal days of europe, and going back as far as you care. Natural selection of the human race proves that those who build fortifications will always outlive the roaming bandits and nomads.

        The only place I can agree somewhat with the acenine statement about bugging out as a preferable course of action, is that most modern homes are in NO WAY to be confused with a fortified stronghold. No matter how well stocked they are. I can get into any room of any house with a sawsall or a sledge hammer, assuming the windows are barred or nonexistent. In a modern urban home, yes you can and will be surrounded, besieges, and routed before you can do anything about it.

        Now, take a stone cottage in the countryside, with independent water and food sources and bullet proof stone walls all around, with very few modifications you could easily beat back any siege of hostiles proportional to what you have to protect (i.e. the entire mongol horde is not going to come knocking for your last loaf of bread, niether will the government start shelling your property for no reason)

        Fortified means just that... you look at it from every angle and you make it impregnable to every reasonable degree from those angles. It's a lot more than a can of spam in the fridge and a shotgun in the closet of your thin-walled apartment
        • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

          Sun, October 25, 2009 - 9:13 AM
          seans going to die. he's the gay lover of the devil.
          • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

            Mon, October 26, 2009 - 2:53 PM
            miss me, dontcha' Jenn?
            • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

              Mon, October 26, 2009 - 2:56 PM
              I want to get myself a higher callibre rifle that can shoot through stuff. Do you recommend any rifles that come in that 8mm or 30-06 that are not of world war II era?
              • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                Tue, October 27, 2009 - 7:39 PM
                Mike's semi-autos are good if you have a clean fixed position to operate from. If you have to move through unknown terrain, in unknown conditions, go with a bolt action.

                You can get good WWII rifles anywhere from $100 to $400 ballpark average, depending on which one you go with. 7.92x56 (8mm Mauser).... 7.62x54R (7.62 Russian)... .303 british, and .30-'06 are all generally comparable. A civillian version of the same gun will cost generally twice as much.

                A 20 round box of 8mm surplus, already on stripper clips, is going to run you $5 where I live. Comparably, a 15-round twine-tied wax-paper wrapped package of 7.62x54R is about the same. I'm not sure about .303 british. .30-'06 will run you upwards of $15 for a box of 20 rounds.

                To get a bolt-action 'hunting rifle' version in any of the above calibers, you'll save about a pound and a half overall weapon weight, good for carrying, kicks harder for shooting. It will also be more accurate, but more delicate and less able to handle abuse. It will also look more 'civilian'... but there again, battle rifles can be 'sporterized' without too much dificulty. It will also cost generally double what you'd pay for a decent condition battle rifle.
                • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                  Thu, October 29, 2009 - 4:08 PM
                  Why do you say that the semi's are better for ffixed position and bolt action is better for going mobile?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                    Thu, October 29, 2009 - 4:32 PM
                    Mosin Nagants are great guns. They're ugly as hell, cheap as hell, (both of which make it less desirable to steal, and you won't cry the first time you smack it against a rock) cheap surplus ammo is increasingly easier to find (opposite for my beloved Mauser) Their actions are simple (good luck disassembling the bolt though lol) and rugged.

                    they aren't particularly well-renowned for accuracy, usually grouping about 4 inches at 100 yards, HOWEVER to avoid a flame-pounding let me also say that the most prolific sniper in human history, Simo Hayha of Finland, scored the majority of his 500+ kills against the invading russian army with a general-issue Mosin Nagant, and he did it on iron sights! (he said the scope forced him to lift his head to a higher profile which made him feel vulnerable)

                    I would opt for the shorter carbine mosin, but that depends somewhat on your needs. The longer one will have a longer sight radius, which is marginally superior for long-range accuracy IF you are not using a scope. The shorter one is lighter, easier to fit in a car etc. and most importantly, easier to navigate heavy brush.... which may or may not be a factor in your potential area of operation. The weight, however, WILL become an increasingly important factor with every mile you have to carry it.

                    NOW, as for why semi-autos are prefferable for fixed-position and bolts are better for on-the-run, it's a simple matter of reliability. If you're shooting comfortably from a deer stand, or the sand-bagged wall under your living room window, you have a relatively clean environment which will not get crap in the action, and you don't have to carry the gun any distance through brush. Therefore, the less-reliable automatic loading mechanism won't be much of a factor, and the benefit of increased firepower is a great bonus.

                    But, if you're going camping with the gun, or bugging out with it, you're going to want something that you can force open and closed no matter what. you have no idea what you might have to put that gun through. You're much safer going for a lower rate of fire, but a more reliable action. Bolt actions will ALWAYS be more reliable than autos. Even the celebrated sand-and-mud-eating AK47 cannot GUARANTEE the chambering and cycling of each round the way a slow, sloppy bolt can, powered by all the strength of your arm.
                • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                  Tue, November 24, 2009 - 9:43 PM
                  Just thinking...

                  The problem with WWII weapons is that they are getting old and parts are not as available as much as they once were.

                  Having parts on hand and knowing how to replace them is something a lot of "armchair war-fighters" never think about.

                  The parts problem could be overcome by having several of the same type weapon around in case one breaks - it can be used for parts. Not to be critical but I would be surprised if many people on this board had ever put enough rounds through a weapon for it to break, let alone fix one that did. As far as that goes, how many here know the emergency action drill to clear a simple jam or misfire of their weapon?

                  Keep your head down and your eyes and ears open.

                  Major Dad.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                    Sun, November 29, 2009 - 5:05 AM
                    if you think the world is anywhere near running out of parts for WWII weapons, you obviously have never owned one that needed parts. The world is LITTERED with mil-spec new and surplus originals, fifty million of EVERYTHING used in WWII.... except maybe the thompson submachine gun. You might have to look through TWO catalogs before you end up with an apple box full of spare parts.
  • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Sun, November 22, 2009 - 11:07 AM
    Fortify against what - exactly?

    DU 50 caliber won't stop for sand bags or timbers of reinforced concrete or all of it together.

    The AR 15 ?? - - well "brick not hit back." It's a different thing to shoot at some one when they are laying a hail of lead in your direction too.

    What I see as the only realistic option is that bit of advice that Pat Morita ( Mister Miyagi) gave to Ralph Macchio: "Not be there" when bullet strike.

    If you end up in a toe to toe with the pigs or army and you don't happen to have you private militia all armed and ready to go you are pretty much toast. They have more men and more guns and bullets than you.
    Best to have slipped quietly away before they started looking. You can't do that covered in clanking steel plate and concrete.
    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

      Wed, November 25, 2009 - 8:55 AM
      My concern is not defending against military. Gangs of starving thugs looting and stealing are my concern. If we face the Military I will not be at home but with my Militia unit engaged in battle somewhere else. Very few people have a 50 cal. Barret or similar weapon much less any ammo for one. We have built our defense perimeter and used fortified deer blinds around our property away from the house so as to not subject the house to being fired on. We cleared killing fields which we planted with clover for the deer but these open areas force anyone advancing on our home to cross them to get to us. Short of artillery or air support attacking us we can stand off a much larger group then us. The sand bag foxholes are covered in branches and pine bows to hide them and are placed in such a way as give us overlapping fields of fire. We will hold the high ground. We will be adding thick thorn bushes to force any enemies into funnels where we can concentrate our fire and take them out. If shit hits the fan and law breaks down Ill also build some black powder devices that work like claymore mines. Having knowledge of these things helps and is not against the law.

      I do not have any misconceptions though. I am not going to be able to hold off even a small Military unit for more then an hour or so. My concern is to keep the average thug from killing us and taking what is ours. Michael
      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

        Fri, December 4, 2009 - 3:29 PM
        **********Gangs of starving thugs looting and stealing are my concern.****************

        Takes me back to the Karate Kid's teacher. "Don't be there." Well I think he said: "Not be there" but, he was an ESL drop out.

        Gangs of starving thugs is adequate description that I just know I won't be within a hundred miles of the place.
        Seriously long before the gangs form up and squads of badly armed mongrels start roaming the streets things will have got so bad that anybody with any sense will have skedaddled long ere that.
  • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Wed, November 25, 2009 - 9:20 PM
    Without spending some hard core cash it's pretty hard to stop bullets. A few tricks that help though.
    Put some rocks in your sand bags. Another one is use thick phone books for the isulation in your walls.
    When I lived in Dayton I piled bricks behind my couch for protection aginst stay bullets. I'm really tired. Theres more but I'l tell you later.
    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

      Thu, November 26, 2009 - 8:09 AM
      I think that if a high powered bullet hits a bag of rocks, the rocks might come out the other side of the bag Along with the bullet and hit people hiding behind them. Like a claymore.
      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

        Thu, November 26, 2009 - 9:58 AM
        true, you have to have dirt in there as well to keep your rocks from flying out, but if you use some Kentucky clay or something like that, it will keep them in place.
        • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

          Thu, November 26, 2009 - 1:44 PM
          You've tried this?
          • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

            Thu, November 26, 2009 - 4:56 PM
            Nothing works as well as sand bags. I have them stacked two deep and have fired my 30-06 with full metal jacketed rounds into the sand they penetrate maybe 6 inches into the bag. We stack the bags on their sides so we have 16 inches of sand bag wall to hide behind. Our Attackers will be in the open facing fire from three dirtections plus a flank attack by me and one other man armed with shotguns coming in from their blind side. The biggest plus to our defensive set up is we have the high ground and from the blinds you can not even see or fire on the house. To our back is a private lake which we can escape across with only one real place to land as the entire back of the lake is silt and swamp. There is no possibility of attack from the rear and if anyone did they would be sitting ducks from our rear deck. Imagine paddling a canoe trying to cross a lake while under fire. You have to remember this, no one knows what will come down if anything. I don't see the mad max scenario that many of you see coming. I see a few gunfights over added gun regulations, a worsening economy and shortages of some foods and medicines.. Of course there is always the possibility of revolution against giving up our constitution. If the so called New World order ever tries to rule us with some world government we might fight a war to stop that or some other takeover attempt. A huge natural disaster such as yellowstone blowing the center of this country into the stratosphere is always a risk or the big eartquake making Nevada the new west coast. Any huge event like that could trigger a lot of panic and looting chaos and lawlessness .

            I have decided that becoming more self reliant is the key to being prepared for any type of event. You cant however prepare for every single possibility. So we used sand bags. They stop bullets, all bullets including .50 cal but Ill never be facing a .50 cal here in my little woods. More like a few starving rednecks with shotguns and deer rifles or gangs from the distant cities looting the outlying areas looking for food and ammunition . We are well armed and have a basic perimeter defense and am adding tricks all the time making it better as time alows us. Early warning systems are key to knowing when someone is advancing(also lets us know when the deer are on the field). If I get things the way I want them Ill have a Laptop setup with trail cams hooked to its own battery and inverter . I already have walkie talkies for us to talk between foxholes and the main house. We also are building sand and log emplacements out a half mile from our house to be used as forward observation posts and first line of defense. Using a series of fall back points. I feel its better to keep the fighting as far from our door as possible. Michael
  • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

    Fri, December 4, 2009 - 4:22 PM
    my walls are solid concrete, my floor is 4 feet below grade, outside i have terraced everything up to the roof line, the terraces are filled mostly with a mix of gravel, wood ash and sand mixed, for retaining walls i used busted up concrete, the bottom terrace varies in width from 6 to 10 feet, second one up 6 to 7 feet, 3rd- 4 to 6 feet and the top one is 3 to 4 feet
    all but 3 windows are down inside a concrete bag stack, you cn stad in it to shoot but short of standing over it you arent shootin in those windows
    still workin on how to fix the last windows and my front door
    roof is all sheet steel, not the kind you get for roofing, its the stuff they use for pouring concrete floors on top of in buildings
    got it from a salvage yard for 10 cents a pound, wish theyd had more
    wanted to totally bury the house but local codes wouldnt let me, damn em
    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

      Fri, December 4, 2009 - 9:04 PM
      I was really into earth shelters for a while. I wanted to build one but couldnt get a bank to finance one. My Plan is simple. Defend away from the house so as to not expose the house to gunfire.. Pit blinds or fox holes if you wish to call them. Sand bags covered with sticks and brush to hide the bags. They make very nice deer blinds. I am planting the open areas with clover for the deer so they work as both defensive positions and hunting spots.
      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

        Fri, December 4, 2009 - 9:15 PM
        whats fun is i didnt build mine with defense in mind, i built it to protect my family from the deer hunters up from the cities
        and yes, they are that bad here
        im sorry but to me Nov 15 starts asshole season, i lock myself and family in the house for the first 3-4 days
        • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

          Fri, December 4, 2009 - 9:24 PM
          Yea we have the assholes in the federal lands a couple of miles from me. They are all over the place. I am lucky to have private land to hunt on and its always quiet until I shoot . I enjoy hunting with both bow and rifle.

          I wish I could find a way to stop people from raping our lake. They come in and catch 3 to 4 limits a day of bluegills and just keep coming back over and over again. I even sick the D.N.R. on them and they keep coming back like our little lake is some gold mine for gills. Geese are freaking everywhere and I am going to start eating them as well. I ate a big snapping turtle this year. Not too bad at all. Turtle noodle soup. Almost like chicken. Sorry to hear you have problems with hunters, some folks should not be allowed to handle guns. Mike
          • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

            Fri, December 4, 2009 - 9:39 PM
            yeah, state land is like 5 miles from here but the a-holes dont care
            neighbor down the road almost lost his wife, bullet cane thru the kitchen window and shattered the dish in her hand
            cops didnt even come out for it just said its a hunting accident
            few years back an amish friend put hunter orange blankets on his dairy cows for rifle season
            someone stopped on the road and dropped all 8 of them then drove off
            every bullet went thru the bright orange blanket, dead center
            but hunters are 90% of this ares income so nobody wants to do anything about them
            • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

              Fri, December 4, 2009 - 10:03 PM
              That sounds like more then just a few hunters. Sounds like someone didnt like your neighbor. Maybe it someone who thought the cows were hunters? orange? Thats some bad shit to be happening. We dont have any thing like that going on over here. Police here do their jobs. All the shootings here happen in the cities. Now fishermen on the other hand over here will beat your ass for casting over their line. Fucking nit wits fighting over 5 feet of pier and a whitefish or salmon. I cant deal with asshole people who trample on others to satisfy thier lusts. Shooting someones cows is about as stinking low as it gets. The perp is sure to be some spineless creep who kills for pleasure. I hope you have better luck in the coming years. Ill pray for your area.Michael
              • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                Tue, December 8, 2009 - 10:13 AM
                I guess last year over here somebody killed a bunch of horses in the county area with a .223

                Just drove along and shot a few every night for fun, at random, anywhere in the body. Usually just one shot.

                Not a single one survived. These were good riding horses too, pets and friends of their owners, not just open-pasture breeders.

                I'm not sure if they ever caught the bastard. I guess that does settle some argument about the .223 as a large-animal caliber though.

                I'm pretty sure if I saw someone shooting in any direction towards my property I would consider that an intentional threat to me or my family. I don't care if they were aiming at my chickens or my cows, there is a deadly weapon intentionally aimed my direction and firing, and a stray shot could kill someone in my family. I'd start shooting back while my wife called the cops and I'd probably give chase until I gunned them down or a cop took over for me, I don't care if it's a couple teenagers with a .22 or a gang of thugs with an AK.

                One of the great things about the rural areas is that EVERYBODY has a gun, and everybody knows how to use one. It goes a long way toward keeping neighbors civil, curbing roadrage, keeping cops friendly and helpful rather than tyrannical, and keeping criminals out of people's homes. But the bad thing is that all the irresponsible idiots also have access to guns, and every now and then, they do something just outright careless or thoughtless or just downright evil. They think it's funny mischief to shoot some poor amish farmer's cattle or knock a cat off a fence or shatter a lawn statue, and sometimes people get hurt. All things considered, though, I'd rather risk confronting a not-intentionally-murderous asshole in the countryside than a robbing thug in the city where I'd probably get in worse trouble for defending myself than he'd get in for being caught.
                • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                  Fri, December 11, 2009 - 1:16 PM
                  Does anyone know how well blocks of ice defend against bullets? Obviously not a solution for anyone but cold region inhabitants (only during the winter here in Wisconsin), but as long as you have a mold and access to water, it could be done. Anyone have any thoughts? Or is this not feasible? I'd have to pay for sand to make sandbags, but water from the river is free.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                    Fri, December 11, 2009 - 2:15 PM
                    I couldn't tell you for sure, but I bet they would be good protection. Layers of thick blocks of ice - I'd try it if I could. You should test it out.
                • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                  Fri, December 11, 2009 - 2:47 PM
                  Yes you get into lots of stupid trouble in the city for defending yourself. Its better to leave before the cops get there.

                  How do you get away with killing a robber in your house? One wound, and no witnesses.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                    Fri, December 11, 2009 - 8:30 PM
                    Never thought of ice. When my lake is frozen Ill try shooting through it. Mike
                    • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                      Sun, December 13, 2009 - 6:10 AM
                      I've got the skivvy on ice-

                      This idea was put to the test by the british empire in the northern sea during WWII

                      You can shoot a 10 pound block of ice with a .303 and it will blow apart into a million pieces.


                      You can mix sawdust into the water and then freeze it, and it will stop a .303 after about two inches of penetration, with no other cracks or damage.

                      They had plans to make iceberg 'aircraft carriers' out of the stuff. Cut engine rooms into it, cut barracks down deep protected from bombs and torpedoes.

                      Battle repair would be as easy as swabbing with warm water and wood chips. All you need to do is keep refrigerated after opening.

                      the war ended before this plan was to be implemented.
                      • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                        Sun, December 13, 2009 - 8:06 AM
                        They tested the strength of ice with sawdust on Mythbusters. It was very strong, but impractical for making a boat.
                        • Re: Home defense "how to stop Bullets"

                          Sun, December 13, 2009 - 12:57 PM
                          Impractical for making a boat, definitely....

                          But how about a mobile island? You'd be lucky to get enough power on it to keep it stationary against ocean currents, but still. With a big enough chunk of ice, you can float just about anything. And with 90% of the ice UNDER WATER...

                          The plan was not to make all 900million tonnes of ice out of sawdust-ice... it was to blast an ice shelf free of the arctic cap, and then pave the top surface with several meters thickness of sawdust ice. if a battle platform drifted into warmer waters or was badly damaged, it would be very easy to remove all personell and supplies to the next one, and let the platform dissolve back into water. No real loss of materials.

                          The materials were already there. It was very practical indeed. Anyways, given the desperate situation of the britts in 1943, ANYTHING sounded like an awesome idea.

                          Anyways, for a house or other expedient arctic shelter, sawdust-infused ice blocks are the way to go for stopping bullets! Think of them as santa's sandbags.

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