ok im going to rattle some cages here but i hear alot of BM types talking in alot of the same subjects as survivalists. any thoughts on this? art car vs mad max? the playa vs barter town?
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 11:17 PMoutdoor people know how fast weather changes and they make do with little... -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 4:44 PMthat 'burning man' vs. 'survivalist' is a pretty apt summation of the root of most of the flame wars in this tribe!
Might I suggest a more apt title for us among the more conservative, guns and bunkers survivalists... Has anyone here seen 'Tremors'? the old movie about the giant monsters underground? Remember Bert the survivalist and his wife heather? If you haven't seen it recently, you GOTTA watch it. Bert and Heather sum up the most awesome stereotype of a survivalist nut-couple, out of any movie out there.
the Burning Men vs. Bert..... whatdya think?
I'm definitely more of a Bert. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 5:21 PMRebba deserved an Oscar for that act. They were the most prepared survivalist imaginable...they were the best part of the movie...
as for burners vs. survivalist ...burners need a stage and someone to show off to, the isolation would drive them nuts. Survivalist are already loners and used to being nuts...just my 2c...........e
-
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 6:27 PMRick,
I'm finding flaws in the analogies you've made, so I can't really answer. I mean, much of BM is very post-apoc mad max-ish. *cough* thunderdome *cough*. and it works on a gifting system, which used to be called a barter system. so your post stating "art car vs mad max? the playa vs barter town?" seems kind of a logic hole. :)
that said, the burner population is easily in the 6 figures now, so it's hard to group them together as being any one thing. There are some who just like to go for a hardcore party, and some that are very skilled survivalists. Burners Without Borders for example. they've gone into disasters sites and helped build temporary housing and dealt with food and water issues, much like survivalists would need to in and EOW scenario. They also tend to be people who don't wait for someone to take care of them, and people who live more on the fringes of regular society.
Honestly, most of my burner friends are multi-talented and can do everything from build things to garden to electrical modications to emerency medical treatment. And BY FAR the burners I know are MUCH more capable than the average non-burner person I meet. So in that respect I think they're similar to many survivalists I've spoken with. However, I've also known some that were so useless it made my head hurt. (I met one woman last year who had gone to BM twice before but was so astoundingly incompetent and stupid that come the EOW the only way she could be useful would be to use her for food.)
I think the difference is that many burners don't really do things like stockpile goods. They tend to practice the kind of skills that would be needed in a survival situation as a common part of their somewhat strange lives, not so much for a preparedness purpose or out of a political or spiritual belief that the end is inevitable. In other words, I think the skillsets are very similar, but the motivation and application are different.
I think that one group can act as a gateway to the other. I know the reason I began to learn a lot of survalism stuff was specifically because I looked around at all my burner friends and realized they all knew 10x more than I did and had way more useful skills. I didn't want to be the weak link, so I started researching and reading. Well that and the fact that the movie 28 Weeks Later convinced me I'd be zombie food and scared me into doing stuff. ;) -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 6:56 PMIt sounds like many BMers ARE survivalists, which makes the whole question moot.
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 7:07 PMYaY!!!!! It's Damn Dirty Hippies VS. Stupid Fucking Rednecks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 7:37 PMBeatniks vs Bubbas! -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 7:49 PM"Beatniks vs Bubbas"
now I'm just picturing a bunch of people wearing striped shirts and berets, smoking cigarettes and listening to jazz while standing in the middle of the desert . ;) -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 10:41 PM'Burners vs. Berts'
I like it.
It's the differnence between smoking weed and chewing tobacco. Country music or drum circles. Fancy 'organic' meat, or just good old homegrown beef.
Pepsi, or Cola.... -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 6:59 AMsounds like the old arguments about the diffrences between earth firsters and the rainbow family
-
-
-
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 11:08 AMWent to Burning Man once, hated much of it, but there were a lot of people doing interesting survival-type things. The camp I was with had a gravity-fed solar-heated shower with an evaporation pond so that we had hot showers yet didn't turn the ground around us to sludge. Learned a lot about LED lighting and solar-powered mini-freezers but overall didn't love the Burning Man experience. It was very cool to be there during the days when it was just the people who were building the art and theme camps, people were so nice and friendly, but I hated it once the party crowd showed up. Completely different vibe.
I'd rather be at 7-Mile Camp in the Columbia Gorge with my dog, my guns, and my date than back in the middle of Black Rock City any day. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:10 PM"there were a lot of people doing interesting survival-type things"
that's what has amazed me, too -- some of the ingenuity. I can't remember the details (I'll have to look it up), but one camp actually recycled all their grey water into usable water. it may have even been potable. and they did it out there in the middle of nowhere, with high winds and alkali dust. that was impressive.
some others have focused on building weather resistant shelters. or different kinds of shelters, like the people who built up ("high rise") instead of out. then there are the folks who focus on solar power or food preservation or fuel. it can get impressive because you can see all kinds of different resources in one place.
that said, the event has it's highs and lows and even many seasoned burners don't wish to go again now.
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 11:10 AMI just figured out BM stood for burning man. I kept thinking of bowel movement. Bert is definately the ultimate survivalist. My goal is to have a bunker just like Bert's. Can the BM's survive without acid? I think the BM's might have good primitive skill's but the hippie mind set might get their ass kicked pretty good when the shtf. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:06 PM"but the hippie mind set might get their ass kicked pretty good when the shtf."
you obviously have never met DPW (that's Department of Public Works). I think they eat hippies for breakfast. ;)
like I said, when you're talking about 50k people *at* the event, plus another 300-600k+ (guessing) who have been and/or will go again, there's no way to generalize that they're all one particular thing. some are hippies. some are "ravers". some are tourists. some are artists. some are lawyers. some are frighteningly capable. others are just frightening. some like to shoot things and blow shit up. some like to cover themselves in glitter. on the whole I've found that AZ burners like to wear glitter then blow shit up. ;)
that's probably one of the differences between burners and survivalists: numbers and variety. :) -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Mon, February 25, 2008 - 1:08 PM"on the whole I've found that AZ burners like to wear glitter then blow shit up. ;) "
That's waaay funny. It must be the Californian influence. We have a real immigration problem here in AZ, we can't keep the damned Californians out :)
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 4:41 PMI could get along with burner's that like blowing shit up. Arizona has been californicated bad. that's why I moved back here.
-
-
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 1:36 PMActually... I tend to think us "burners" would kick ass as we have a strong community(Drink!) support network and would(and do) band together, sharing resources. I can tell you one thing, 50 peeps that are sharing resources are a hell of a lot more likely to survive together, than some guy in a bunker with the anarchist's cookbook and 200 cans of corned beef hash.
I look at my local group here in southern California (admittedly ground zero) and I see a heterogeneous group of friends with survivor written all over them. We have surgeons, Trauma nurses, IT and EE folks, Engineers, Welders, Carpenters, Machanics and Machinists, Scientists, Chemists, Clothing makers... The list goes on and on. And those are the day jobs. Then, when you look at what they do for fun... Well, we are talking one capable bunch of survivors, with a common goal and a common motive. And, there are a lot of ex-mil types too. You just cannot stop that kind of a group of peeps...
I think the real point here is that we can all learn from each other and teach to each other some great survival skills and tactics. It does not have to be "us or them", it can be "us and them".
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 5:49 PMHippy's can't kick ass, get real. The hallucination's while on dope might make them think they can. A bunch of pinko lib's with name's like "mud turtle" can't be stopped? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Even if a large group of burner's had the sense to group up they could never feed a crowd that big. They will end up turning on each other when reefer run's out anyway. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 11:53 AMit's pretty easy for people to 'band together' while on a vacation. hell, everyone on a harley davidson 'bands together' at any ralley they can come up with, that doesn't mean they'd stick together in the hard times. As far as burners 'banding together' when the REAL baloon goes up, I just don't see it happening. And I'm not ragging against burners only, I think most of the Berts might not get along either.
Take any roommate situation. Take away the glory and adventure of proving who can recycle toilet paper into fuel for their volkswagen, and who can build a solar still with glitter and pipe cleaners, imagine trying to set up camp when someone else would rather do interpretive dancing by the fire... and eventually, people run into friction. A band of rednecks would be just as volatile, some asshole trying to use up the black powder stores to start a fire for the night, some other asshole getting all irritable because he's out of cigarrettes for the first time in 27 years.
300,000 people is a lot of people to generalize. It's also a lot of general people, to put any kind of trust in. I look around and I see a large percentage of Berts AND Burners that just aren't going to make it past the first couple of weeks. Alot of Burners that only know how to gather mushrooms and feel 'at one' with nature, and a lot of Berts who think that survival is two weeks in a concrete room full of bullets and spam.
I wouldn't trust one, any more than the other. Case-by-case, if you think you're going to put together an enclave, you'd better be damn selective. Think of it like choosing a marriage partner more than who you'd invite to a barbeque. In the grit of a real collapse, you're going to rely on them just as much, and at times, you guys will be living closer and going through more hardship than many marriages throughout history. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 3:18 PMAs someone who was into survivalism before I went to Burning Man, who's been to Army boot camp (can hit 40/40 with an M16 from 300 out) and practiced wilderness survival since I was 5 years old, and who could kick Bret's ass while doing interpretive dance around a camp fire, I'm really getting a kick out of all these hippie generalizations.
I'll take the people with survival skills, the ability to unwind and have a good time, and the experience of building and living in refugee camp scenarios over the loners any day. Building community will be a big priority after an EOW scenario, and people like those with Burners Without Borders who've seen what it takes to deal with vector control, waste management, temporary housing, mass demolition, rebuilding, sustainable agriculture and education will have a huge advantage over some loner with mac and cheese and some spam in a bunker. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 4:19 PMI guess a lot of the 'burners vs. berts' argument depends on what kind of balloon is going up.
In the aftermath of a storm, burners have a lot of helpful training to pull together and rebuild.
This, to me, is a temporary emergency, not a real 'collapse'
In a society where there is a huge infrastructural setback, but the general population is pulling together to rebuild, this is not a collapse. At least, not in my dictionary. To me, a collapse involves some element of... collapsing? like, a breakdown of social infrastructure, in the very knit of society, not a breakdown in sewage management or power grid.
Me, I wouldn't get too bent out of shape if a storm knocked the city out. I'd be out there with the burners, the berts, and the average citizens, pulling trees off the roads, helping people trapped in houses, anything I can do. But to me, this is not a collapse, this is disaster relief. Burners, at least in the way nick has portrayed them, seem well enough equipped to deal with such a situation.
I suppose, to me, a true 'collapse' would involve a lot more than the power going out, or the grocery store truckers going on strike. It would involve plagues, or mass starvation, or war, what have you. The kind of thing that sends most of the human species scrambling for individual survival like rats on a sinking ship. This, to me, is a collapse. When people, by and large, are no longer thinking about helping anyone, and survival priorities boil down to individual or family based levels.
Maybe it's just a semantic of word-definitions here. To me, the tidal waves in the indian ocean were not a collapse. they were a major tragedy, but right from the start, the goal and the direction was rebuilding toward normalcy. Likewise, if there were a nuclear war, and everyone pulled together to bring the world up off it's radiated knees, I would not call that a 'collapse', any more than WWII was a 'collapse'. To me, a real collapse would knock us back to the dark ages both in technology, quality of life, and probably population numbers, for at least a solid generation or two. And IN that definition of collapse. interpretive dancers are a waste of my stored up macaroni and cheese!
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 6:22 PMWho's Bret? I think you better stick to digging sewer's in some 3rd world armpit. I'm not a loner with a can of spam. I'm far more prepared than you. betcha.. What I've seen of hippy's is a bunch scabby looking cracker head's that's out of touch with reality. The word Hippy is just a term that makes an attempt to glorify the definition of a dirty out of work pot head bum. I mean, get high and burn a statue? What the hell for? Just cause your camping don't make you a survivalist. neither does carving a bow out of a hickory limb at some burner camp. Hippy's lack any kind of mental toughness to survive anything long term. If they werent weak minded they wouldnt be hippy's in the first place. Sorry, I just call it like I see it. I could be wrong, mabe I havent seen the special opp's hippy's yet. Let me guess Nick, you deserted the military when all hell broke loose in the middle east so now you travel with some peace corp outfit till you get a pardon? That's so 60's hippy. Your outdoor skill's may be as good as mine but I'll guarantee you no better. If it's Brent's ass you want to try to kick around the camp fire, I'll build the fire.
Rick wanted to rattle cage's, I just gave it good shake'n ha ha -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 9:20 PMMaybe I shouldnt be so ugly toward's the hippy type folk's but when I hear "hippy" I think of skanky dope head's spitting on soldier's at the airport as they returned home from vietnam. -
-
Names are nothing.
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 5:10 AM- and people evolve. You should too. How can people classify other people that you don't know or understand... - who are you to judge? I don't hear of people spitting on soldiers today. (the war is terrible I think. I hear of lives shattered daily.. but it seems like no one cares??))) So - Live in the now. I don't think you can say all people are one way. It is like saying all rednecks are assholes!
& I see people who are more productive on pot than on prescriptions.. I am just saying..it is an all natural plant
-Sounds like you have issues from the days before my birth.
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 10:00 PM"who's been to Army boot camp "
Um. Yeah. Need more credentials if'n yer gonna yap.
But, it's still 40-Love, Bret.
C'mon, boys. Let's hear it.
Half a bottle o' Pinot. Girl wanna see some action.
Friday night. C'mon. I'm throwin out some gun powder and startin' a FIRE.
yeee.
ha.
Yella Cadima. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 10:05 PMI wish I was having as much fun as you. I'm looking for free info on tricking out an AK -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 11:46 PMUm.
Got any SKS bananna clips to trade? -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sat, February 23, 2008 - 7:18 AMNo, I've never had an sks.
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 11:54 PMThere's something to be said for wielding peaceful arms. I never joined the military, had some gold teeth keep me from getting into that hellhole. Like a million dollar wound, but more of a bad habit than an injury. Didn't really show up for formations on time, didn't really respect people who weren't pushing me. Fort Knox was a joke.
As for TEOWAWKI, I'm not saying that earthquakes and tsunamis and typhoons and el nino = Collapse. Collapse would take a plague (they had the Bubonic here in Pisco in 1992!) or a meteor (ever been to one of the crators?) or global war or worldwide flooding. Maybe all at the same time.
Regardless, people are gonna need to eat, clean up, get shelter, and protect themselves. Staying sane is tough in a situation like this. Most flip out within the first week.
And thats just after a normal disaster. It takes at least 6 months for people to knock themselves out of the daze of an infrastructure leveling, force of thousands of atomic bombs event. If Yellowstone popped like a pimple, it would be like billions of atomic bombs.
When I stand on the lip of a millenia old crater, or on top of a 13,000 foot mountain with sea level shells embedded in its rock, I imagine the type of energy it would take to lift that much earth that high.
And how terrifying it would be to be around it.
Got nothing personal against you Brent, you're just clowning on my kin, so I'll bust on you a bit. Try not to take the internet too seriously, sarcasm doesn't come across for shit and most people on here are pranksters and wankers.
I can't say I love everyone at Burning Man or some hippie BS like that, but I'm often so dumbfounded by how ingenuitive and crafty these sumbitches are that I can't get the stupid grin off my face. I just try to learn and keep up, they've got some diverse skills but damned useful whether or not the end comes in the next few years, or in our lifetimes.
Whether a full-collapse happens or not, being able to prioritize in a time of crisis will come in handy. What else? Paintball? Lazer Tag? Growing up in Compton? Learning to dodge bullets? Playing lots of videogames?
Everybody needs a hobby and something to put food on the table. I guess hunting would be a good way to kill two birds with one stone? Catching fish with a stick might work. Maybe gardening.
I dunno, what did the old school survivalist guys do? Your Bowies and your Crocketts and your Bunyans and your Billy the Kids? Indian Wrestling? Axe Throwing? Barfight?
I always thought the Davie Crockett song went "Killed in a bar, when he was only three" like he did all that shit before he turned three. That musta been one badass baby.
Hey Brent you want to have fun you should check out some country that doesn't speak English and find people into the same stuff you are. Now THATS a good way to prepare for a Collapse. Learning a new language and seeing how other cultures cultivate, thrive, and relate could come in really handy. And who knows, they might just be the only ones left around if there is some world threatening event. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 11:58 PMDiggin' on some Nick........... -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sat, February 23, 2008 - 1:30 AMMaybe get to know a bunch of Swiss and Tibetan and Peruvian types. High mountains do well in EOW scenarios, right? Would the sierras be safe? Forest fires? Or is it more of a valley thing? Shit, then you got floods, landslides, anywhere near a big city you got riots and looting.
The deserts are a good way to get away from all the people, but fuck, those damned burning man types have learned to build cities in the deserts.
Maybe swamps. Bayous got plenty of water, you can eat possum and armadillo and pigs and shit, plus shrimp are really good.
You trying to get me killed Malicious? How come every time I come on here I get someone polishing their guns at me? I think most of us would get along pretty damned well if we met at a party, or on some back highway in bumfuck nowhere after the collapse. People who call each other on their shit make the best friends. We're all people who enjoy shooting guns and blowing shit up, same with the rustic living.
Maybe we could have a survivalist cookoff? Who can make the best combination of whatever they've stored, hunted, or grown. Winner gets to be big man until the next party. That was the tribal way of doing things.
No need for us to get all murderous towards each other, thats what sports, games, and taunting were invented for. When shit hits the fan though, it goes back to the basics. That anthropological, sociopolitical shit.
Dostoevsky said it best, "there is nothing easier than lopping off heads and nothing harder than developing ideas." -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sat, February 23, 2008 - 7:21 AMI'm all for having a party. somebody take charge and name a good place.
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sat, February 23, 2008 - 8:06 AMSince you brought up opposum's. You can live on them. I've never ate one but I hear theyre a little greasy and full of fat, you dont have to worry about rabbit starvation or have to eat gut's too to get anything out of it. Plus theyre slow and stupid. It doesnt take an experienced hunter to get one. You can walk right up and club one. You can hear them plowing right through the bushes all over the place at night. Theyre everywhere around here. I had a bad experience with an armadillo in a barn one time. I was pulling some straw up off the bottom row and a huge one jumped up between my leg's, flopped around and nosed me in the crotch a couple of times. I screamed like a girl. Armadillo's are a good survival food too. Plus you can wear their shell's on your head to block satallites from scanning your brain. lol -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sat, February 23, 2008 - 8:28 AMThats funny, I've spent six months in Peru and I can still only just cuss. Odaley pinche joto huevon pendejo puta madre concha la mierda peladero maricon chupando mi culo... buey.
Never had possum, even after living in Mississippi 11 months. Aligator and crawfish, now thats good eating. My buddy Armando had a gator hunting license, the crazy fuck would go out with a bow and arrow and a huge spotlight to blind the poor reppies and then skewer them through their eye into their tiny little brain.
Good soup, thats for damned sure.
Ever speared a pig in the bayou? I hear its an unforgettable experience. I wanted to take my catahoula pig hunting once he was old enough, but the poor sucker got himself run over when I brought him to the suburbs.
RIP Scraps -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sat, February 23, 2008 - 8:30 AMI think a survivalist party would be wicked good fun. Half cookoff, half ordnance testing, bring your automatic expanding tents, your mongoloid yurts, your zeppelin, whatever. Maybe we could invite the steampunks, or are they too goth for us?
"We don't take kindly to your type" would be a great name for a party. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sat, February 23, 2008 - 8:37 AM"We don't take kindly to your type" would be a great name for a party.
Genius.
Add "Yee ain't frum arand heeere, are yeh?" and I think we've got a winner.
Well said, Gentlemen. Y'all make my hangover very happy.
-
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sun, February 24, 2008 - 12:34 AMThousand can host the party out in the moab. "We dont take kindly to your type" party work's fine for me. It reminds me of home. ha ha -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sun, February 24, 2008 - 8:55 AMIf we're having a party, I'm going to open up the post-apocalyptic spa and MASH unit, then make Brent and Thousand all purty. -
-
Re: burning man type vs survivalist type
Sun, February 24, 2008 - 10:44 AMWe need all the purty help we can get.. Well, thousand does anyway. lol A good spanking around the camp fire would be fun. ha ha
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
